kurokonobasukefandomcom-20200223-history
Forum:Generation of Miracles
So there has always been talk and discussion on the topic of who the Generation of Miracles really are, more specifically, are Kuroko and Haizaki considered a part of the GoM...? For starters, Kuroko has always been grouped together with the Generation of Miracles, in promo images, spreads, fanart etc. The Wiki has also labeled Kuroko as one of the Generation of Miracles. However, in the light of this new flashback arc, the Teikō arc, we have reason to believe that the Generation of Miracles are exclusively the five Teikō starting members, this being Ryōta Kise, Shintarō Midorima, Daiki Aomine, Atsushi Murasakibara and Seijūrō Akashi. In terms of strength and skill, it would also be clear the only those 5 are the Generation of Miracles and that Kuroko is only a supporting player to that group. Furthermore, in chapter 219, the Teikō Junior High School board chairman said "..those five students in the basketball club currently called the "Generation of Miracles"...". This is pretty clear evidence that the Generation of Miracles are only those five players. Also, if we go all the way back to Kagami's original promise, that is that he will defeat the Generation of Miracles. If Kuroko would be part of that group, it would be a bit odd for Kagami to say that. Even more, Kagami said that he heard of the Generation of Miracles and assumed Kuroko was part of that team. So I think that's pretty much it, Kuroko was part of the Generation of Miracles team in Teikō, but wasn't and isn't a Generation of Miracles himself. Now a side note, for Haizaki. I believe that there is no way he would be considered a part of the Generation of Miracles. He is only a former Teikō starting member and was never labeled or part of the group labeled as the Generation of Miracles. I think the definition of the Generation of Miracles I mentioned earlier is proof enough that Haizaki was left out. So yeah, since the Wiki is still in format of Kuroko, the member of Generation of Miracles, I thought a proper discussion would be necessary before overhauling the whole Wiki. Please leave your thoughts on this, wether you agree/disagree under this line. Thanks. 14:11, July 3, 2013 (UTC) ---- Kuroko: I think he is part of the GoM because he helped them almost two years. The other GoM members said they acknowledge Kuroko's skills. It's true that everyone talking about the five member of the GoM but thats because Kuroko is invisible and nobody know that he exists, he's just a legend to everyone (except for some people who know him). Haizaki: I'm confused whit Haizaki because here he mentioned that they became famous after he left but in the teikou arc here they mentined the GoM when Haizaki was in the team (Kise just joined the team later in this chapter). I don't know what to think. LeoWyattTalk' 19:38, July 3, 2013 (UTC)' Yeah, for Haizaki, that was the only time he was actually included with them. However, whenever Kuroko or any other character spoke of the Generation of Miracles, they never spoke a word of Haizaki. So while Kise, Midorima and the others are pretty obvious to be Generation of Miracles, Haizaki was kind of left behind. And for Kuroko, I see that he was more supporting than really part of the Generation of Miracles. They also always said that he is the sixth man, somewhat an expression that means that he's an appendix on the team; the Generation of Miracles and Kuroko. He can somewhat be compared to Nijimura, who was just an addition to the Generation of Miracles team, it's just that Kuroko was much more in sync with the five starters. 21:31, July 3, 2013 (UTC) :Haizaki? No. But as for Kuroko, I think he's part of the miracles and should be listed there. Kuroko here is a special case as he's more like part of the GoM and not-a-part of the GoM at the same time, as he mentioned that the official records about him were not taken in because no one saw him (his ability) during the time when the other players were interviewed. So basically, if the records were taken in he'll be known by everyone. I think that's the theme, he's the Phantom Sixth Man of the GoM that nobody knows about. That's what makes Kuroko special.. Yeah, Kuroko was kind of promoted as the phantom sixth man, but you can say that he's the sixth man of a five man team as well, sixth man as in a term that rather means that he's a back-up and not part of the actual team. Also, the director of the school knew about Kuroko but he still only referred to the GoM as only the five starters. 17:11, July 6, 2013 (UTC) I spent some time researching on some info on whether or not Kuroko is part of the GoM. And this is how it turns out. I've written it in point form so that it's more easy to understand. *Firstly, the CHARACTERS BIBLE did not EVER state that Kuroko was a Miracle. **He is dubbed The Phantom Sixth Man of Teiko in his profile, no statement of him being a Miracle whatsoever. Unlike Aomine's, Murasakibara's or Akashi's profile which dubs them as The GoM's ace, The GoM's centre and The captain of the GoM respectively. Check out their profiles in the CB, Bere. You have the raws. **Bere, I also believe another strong supportive evidence is at page 8 and 9 of the CB, check your raws bro, Kuroko isn't there alongside Kise, Midorima, Aomine, Murasakibara nor Akashi in the rosters of the GoMs. *In recent chapters during the Teiko arc, the director only mentioned those 5 and not Kuroko. Sanada seems very concerned about the 5. (and not Kuroko) Moreover, Kuroko quit the basketball club sometime in his 3rd year in Junior High, while the GoM still won the Nationals for a 3rd straight row, right? (Without Kuroko). I'm guessing the fame of the GoM will peak at their 3rd years due to the overflow of power at the end of their 2nd years resulting everyone to acknowledge them by then. (Teppei in Shoei Middle is a prime example.) *Also, a Miracle in this manga is defined as a player with exponential ability which only appears in every 10 years or so, Kuroko however, only accels in passing. With his physical abilities ranked as below abysmal, there's no way a player like him could be called a Miracle. *And in chapter 189, when Aomine and Momoi were chatting in the cafe while the Seirin vs Kaijo winter cup match was ongoing, there it shows a potrayal of Kagami who is dubbed as The Miracle that did not become a Miracle, with the five of the GoM standing behind him. Kuroko isn't there. Besides, like you said Kagami wanted to defeat the Miracles, stating that in front of Kuroko would be weird in any way possible. *And additionally to that, the Japanese Wikipedia page did not say anything about Kuroko being a Miracle. Again, Kuroko is labelled as The Phantom Sixth Man, not a Kiseki no Sedai whatsoever. Finally, I think the main reason behind all this ruckus is due to misinterpretation from all of us mistaking this fact because Kuroko was so close with the other GoM. The fact the members of the GoM obviously acknowledge him is already proven. But this somehow creates an illusion for all of us thinking that Kuroko is a Miracle. Being a huge fan and chasing a series spanning from late December 2008 until now with a combined total of over 220 chapters of spotlights entirely lit on Kuroko plus those 5 GoMs, we somehow subconsciously(?) think that Kuroko is a Miracle when in truth, all the while, isn't. And just look at the anime, I'm not suprized if the fangirls from mother Japan would know that he isn't a GoM due to so much quality time with his best buds from Teiko. The end word is, Kuroko is a shadow, a supporting role, not a flashy player with overwhelming skills. Therefore, Kuroko isn't a miracle. :) This is pretty much all I need. You've summed up enough reasons that while Kuroko is the Phantom Sixth Man, he is not a Generation of Miracles member. Combined with what I've said in my previous posts her and in the Generation of Miracles comments section (CJ, you should check that out too, I think I've mentioned chapter 189 there as well). The Generation of Miracles have been presented many times and during pretty much all those times, Kuroko was left out, like in the CB spread. I think it's pretty clear now, Kuroko is not a part of the Generation of Miracles. If you'll let me, I'll handle all the changes that have to be made to the Wiki's content, like the GoM article and Kuroko's article and any other page that mentions Kuroko as a GoM. Thanks for helping clearing this up. 15:53, July 8, 2013 (UTC) So, of all people, I was the one that broke the deadlock? 0.0 Woah, the overflow of honour is killing me! XD Oh well, at least the problem is solved now and everyone won't be confused anymore. 3:46, July 9 2013 (UTC) Yeah well with the confirmation that Kuroko isn't included with the GoM in the CHARACTERS BIBLE, I would say there isn't much discussion left. So yeah, I guess you were kind of the breakthrough. 13:58, July 9, 2013 (UTC) To be honest, personally I think that Kuroko will be included in the miracles later on. I mean he was part of the miracles in the one-shot. I have this weird feeling that the miracles will accept Kuroko as a miracle as well or something like that later on in the series. I mean Kuroko is a miracle itself. He's weak, his skills are poor and he's the total opposite of what a strong basketball player should be like. But he still manages to keep up with the strongest players the GoM. Maybe it's just me but I think that the author is confusing us for a reason. With all of the things going on in the manga right now, I would say that Kuroko is a miracle. This is probably just me... Kuroko is a miracle but in a different sense than having been born with talent. He's a miracle from hard work. A different type of miracle.--DSM144 (talk) 22:54, August 27, 2013 (UTC) Yeah well I think there's no doubt that Kuroko is a miracle, just in the sense of the word, a very special basketball players, but I don't think we can really group him together with the Generation of Miracles. But yeah, I think you're right, it can perfectly be that the author is purposely making it unclear and that Kuroko will eventually be labeled as a part of the Generation of Miracles, but up until now, he hasn't. The five that are definitely part of the GoM have been clearly labeled but Kuroko hasn't, maybe it's on purpose maybe it's just because he's not a GoM member but for now, until we have even more information, he's not a GoM. 23:03, August 27, 2013 (UTC) Yeah you're right. But I really hope that in the future Kuroko will be labeled as a miracle. On a side note I kind of think that, at least in the "members" section, he should be meantioned there since he is their sixth man after all. Maybe you could put "Players" as the main heading, underheading "members" and then "Other" and put Kuroko there or something. Just a thought. Also (At the bottom of the page) DSM144 (talk) 23:24, August 27, 2013 (UTC) Yeah, he is the sixth man (also referring to your link) of the five-man team, he isn't part of the original and core Generation of Miracles. Grouped with more reasons/evidence in the manga and CHARACTERS BIBLE, it's pretty clear. It can always change if the author decides to label him as a GoM member in the manga, but this hasn't happened yet, so yeh. Also, I can't really put Kuroko under the members section of the article since he just isn't a member. I added some more information mentioning Kuroko in the introduction and if I eventually write the history part of the article, Kuroko should be present enough on the article. 00:48, August 28, 2013 (UTC) Ok. I just thought that he should be meantioned more in their article page. Also, I was just wondering... Kise's perfect copy can copy the Generation of Miracles moves right? But he also managed to copy Kuroko's moves as well (Phantom shot and Ignite Pass Kai). Does this mean that perfect copy can also copy Kagami's moves?? For now he only copied Kuroko's & GoM's. ughhh the author is really messing with my head... DSM144 (talk) 10:54, August 28, 2013 (UTC) Kise has already been known to copy Kagami's move, like that drive to the hoop, roll and shot that Kise copied from him the first time they met. Kise also copied Kagami's lane up, as seen in the warm-up of the Winter Cup match. 22:06, August 28, 2013 (UTC) I just crossed this article and decide to drop my input. If you read the first page of the first chapter there are 5 miracles and one sixth(phantom player) that they all aknowledge. also, Kuroko is only a weak player if he tries to play like everyone else. he had to abandon all of that and event his own style which take his so called weakness and turns it into a overwhelming strength the stronger those around him the stronger he beomes. physical attribute average at best skill level however is overwhelming. Okay, so you described Kuroko's ability to us… So what about him not being a part of the Generation of Miracles then…? 16:54, October 5, 2013 (UTC)